thanks to David Hess. I mentioned his appearing, via forwarded mail, on the subsubpoetics list back in aught aught. I believe his mission was to rattle the cage. he succeeded. I can't recollect the terms of the dialectic, but the manner, especially from David's side, was challenging. and the boys got into it, as boys will do. archives have been vapourized so you'll have to take my word. you miss little if you don't get the verbatim. I doubt that I joined into that part of the fray. me and dialectic aren't from the same neighbourhood. I did write something snide to or about David. my impetus being that here was a foreigner coming in to make trouble then off he goes. so yeah, I was a dickhead altho I could see even then that his charge into the Sub P ranks was an injection. he straightforwardly backchannelled me, which removed the public display factor, and he and I had some civil correspondence. this all occurred a week or 2 after the Boston Poetry Marathon. which was the 1st poetry reading I'd ever attended, and also my public coming out party as poet. insofar as I met a lot of poets, saw what many more looked and sounded like, and otherwise copped a glimmer of the social world of poetry. it was like freshman orientation for me. and Beth and I had just decided to get married then, so that gave a new and fresh to all. and now I'm not sure why this pass down memory lane, except maybe to note that there's a lot about poetry that isn't poetry. should I just leave it there? I would sooner trail after the words than push or drag them, if David wants my secret. in poetry that's a more intense and daring act, and so subject to greater failures. in this sort of journalated process, one wants to stay with the charms, whatever they might be. with the KJ/JB conclave, I note a lot of pushing and dragging. that poets, blogging or not, want some attention should pose no surprise. kinda goes with the calling. that anger arises is more perplexing and I'll say complicitous. anger being a 2ndary emotion, it asks for honest observation of the self kind. as I said, I had my dickhead moment re David Hess, and I'll have more dickhead moments with the world as time goes on. I'm from another planet so I really don't care what goes on here, except that sometimes things just get too lurid to ignore. that's my fault. the impetus to push or drag can be of a sullen power. I know there are other moments than ones of such perpetrated sweat.