yes on top of torture. a Vietnam vet who gave a talk on his experiences in the war and afterwards as a protester said, do you think they aren't doing the same atrocities in Iraq as we did in Vietnam? well I did not think humanity changed all that much in the 30 years. these cleaned-up dictionaries that are giving the impression of civilized behaviour are just blowing extra wind. oh but that aint news. these torture pictures hit me the same way as the news of priests abusing children has. it just feels dismal to consider.